Wir haben gewonnen! - Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

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NovaPrincess
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Re: Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

Beitrag von NovaPrincess » April 27, 2015, 3:37 pm

Aber mal andersrum gefragt: Warum sollte ein Unternehmen nicht auch davon profitieren?
Wäre ich Unternehmer wäre ich ziemlich angefressen, wenn jemand über meine Plattform etwas anbietet, eventuell über Spenden damit Geld macht, aber ich muß die Kosten für das Hosting übernehmen während ich somit als "Werbeplattform" genutzt werde.

Ok, daß nur 25% davon dann an den Mod-Bastler gehn soll find ich auch etwas "seltsam", auch daß die Donate-Links entfernt werden, aber immernoch besser, als daß das Projekt komplett für die Plattform gesperrt wird.

Andrerseits steht es natürlich jedem Mod-Bastler frei sich mit andren Moddern zusammen zu tun um eine eigene Plattform auf die Beine zu stellen - klar, damit wirds für den Endanwender dann auch wieder bissl mehr arbeit... Aber früher hatte man sowas alles nich und es hat auch irgendwie geklappt.
Bin hier zu finden die nächste Zeit: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/NCI

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Zoidy
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Re: Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

Beitrag von Zoidy » April 27, 2015, 3:57 pm

Oh ich bin voll für Donate Buttons mit Anteil für den Spiele-Developer!
Und klar, Valve hat für den Service auch einen Anteil verdient.
Aber ein Kaufpreis, praktisch kein Umtauschrecht ohne Wochen-Bann und so ein kleiner Anteil für den Modder sind nicht akzeptabel, vor allem weil die Modding Szene bisher der einzige nicht-kommerzialisierte Bereich im Gaming war. Und das zu verlieren, wäre schon sehr schade.
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Tobi
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Re: Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

Beitrag von Tobi » April 27, 2015, 5:00 pm

skyui wird jetzt übrigens auch zur bezahlmod ;)

Er wurde auf die dunkle Seite der Macht gezogen
Schiffe: RSI Orion, AEGIS Vulcan, Banu Merchantman, DRAKE Dragonfly und TUMBRIL Cyclone :]
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Zoidy
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Re: Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

Beitrag von Zoidy » April 27, 2015, 5:02 pm

Das traurige ist, dass sehr viele kostenlose Mods auf SkyUI basieren und damit auch hinter der Paywall verschwinden.
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Zoidy
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Re: Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

Beitrag von Zoidy » April 27, 2015, 6:49 pm

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Zoidy
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Re: Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

Beitrag von Zoidy » April 28, 2015, 12:15 am

Bethesda hat eine Presseerklärung rausgegeben in der sie...nichts sagen. Sie meinen, sie hätten die Probleme verstanden, sind aber weit weg vom Kern der allen Kopfschmerzen bereitet. Dieser Text macht mich KRANK
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"Why we’re trying paid Skyrim mods on Steam
We believe mod developers are just that: developers. We love that Valve has given new choice to the community in how they reward them, and want to pass that choice along to our players. We are listening and will make changes as necessary.
We have a long history with modding, dating back to 2002 with The Elder Scrolls Construction Set. It’s our belief that our games become something much more with the promise of making it your own. Even if you never try a mod, the idea you could do anything is at the core of our game experiences. Over the years we have met much resistance to the time and attention we put into making our games heavily moddable. The time and costs involved, plus the legal hurdles, haven’t made it easy. Modding is one of the reasons Oblivion was re-rated from T to M, costing us millions of dollars. While others in the industry went away from it, we pushed more toward it.
We are always looking for new ways to expand modding. Our friends at Valve share many of the same beliefs in mods and created the Steam Workshop with us in 2012 for Skyrim, making it easier than ever to search and download mods. Along with Skyrim Nexus and other sites, our players have many great ways to get mods.
Despite all that, it’s still too small in our eyes. Only 8% of the Skyrim audience has ever used a mod. Less than 1% has ever made one.
In our early discussions regarding Workshop with Valve, they presented data showing the effect paid user content has had on their games, their players, and their modders. All of it hugely positive. They showed, quite clearly, that allowing content creators to make money increased the quality and choice that players had. They asked if we would consider doing the same.
This was in 2012 and we had many questions, but only one demand. It had to be open, not curated like the current models. At every step along the way with mods, we have had many opportunities to step in and control things, and decided not to. We wanted to let our players decide what is good, bad, right, and wrong. We will not pass judgment on what they do. We’re even careful about highlighting a modder on this blog for that very reason.
Three years later and Valve has finally solved the technical and legal hurdles to make such a thing possible, and they should be celebrated for it. It wasn’t easy. They are not forcing us, or any other game, to do it. They are opening a powerful new choice for everyone.
We believe most mods should be free. But we also believe our community wants to reward the very best creators, and that they deserve to be rewarded. We believe the best should be paid for their work and treated like the game developers they are. But again, we don’t think it’s right for us to decide who those creators are or what they create.
We also don’t think we should tell the developer what to charge. That is their decision, and it’s up to the players to decide if that is a good value. We’ve been down similar paths with our own work, and much of this gives us déjà vu from when we made the first DLC: Horse Armor. Horse Armor gave us a start into something new, and it led to us giving better and better value to our players with DLC like Shivering Isles, Point Lookout, Dragonborn and more. We hope modders will do the same.
Opening up a market like this is full of problems. They are all the same problems every software developer faces (support, theft, etc.), and the solutions are the same. Valve has done a great job addressing those, but there will be new ones, and we’re confident those will get solved over time also. If the system shows that it needs curation, we’ll consider it, but we believe that should be a last resort.
There are certainly other ways of supporting modders, through donations and other options. We are in favor of all of them. One doesn’t replace another, and we want the choice to be the community’s. Yet, in just one day, a popular mod developer made more on the Skyrim paid workshop then he made in all the years he asked for donations.
Revenue Sharing
Many have questioned the split of the revenue, and we agree this is where it gets debatable. We’re not suggesting it’s perfect, but we can tell you how it was arrived at.
First Valve gets 30%. This is standard across all digital distributions services and we think Valve deserves this. No debate for us there.
The remaining is split 25% to the modder and 45% to us. We ultimately decide this percentage, not Valve.
Is this the right split? There are valid arguments for it being more, less, or the same. It is the current industry standard, having been successful in both paid and free games. After much consultation and research with Valve, we decided it’s the best place to start.
This is not some money grabbing scheme by us. Even this weekend, when Skyrim was free for all, mod sales represented less than 1% of our Steam revenue.
The percentage conversation is about assigning value in a business relationship. How do we value an open IP license? The active player base and built in audience? The extra years making the game open and developing tools? The original game that gets modded? Even now, at 25% and early sales data, we’re looking at some modders making more money than the studio members whose content is being edited.
We also look outside at how open IP licenses work, with things like Amazon’s Kindle Worlds, where you can publish fan fiction and get about 15-25%, but that’s only an IP license, no content or tools.
The 25% cut has been operating on Steam successfully for years, and it’s currently our best data point. More games are coming to Paid Mods on Steam soon, and many will be at 25%, and many won’t. We’ll figure out over time what feels right for us and our community. If it needs to change, we’ll change it.
The Larger Issue of the Gaming Community and Modding
This is where we are listening, and concerned, the most. Despite seeming to sit outside the community, we are part of it. It is who we are. We don’t come to work, leave and then ‘turn off’. We completely understand the potential long-term implications allowing paid mods could mean. We think most of them are good. Some of them are not good. Some of them could hurt what we have spent so long building. We have just as much invested in it as our players.
Some are concerned that this whole thing is leading to a world where mods are tied to one system, DRM’d and not allowed to be freely accessed. That is the exact opposite of what we stand for. Not only do we want more mods, easier to access, we’re anti-DRM as far as we can be. Most people don’t know, but our very own Skyrim DLC has zero DRM. We shipped Oblivion with no DRM because we didn’t like how it affected the game.
There are things we can control, and things we can’t. Our belief still stands that our community knows best, and they will decide how modding should work. We think it’s important to offer choice where there hasn’t been before.
We will do whatever we need to do to keep our community and our games as healthy as possible. We hope you will do the same.
Bethesda Game Studios"

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Reddits Kommentare zu dem Thema beschreiben die Sache ganz gut:
"This is such a large hurdle of horseshit.
At first it's the usual blabbering about how much they've invested for the betterment of the community, et cetera et cetera. Usual PR stuff to garner a good stance with the readers, nothing respectable said at all.
We believe most mods should be free. But we also believe our community wants to reward the very best creators, and that they deserve to be rewarded. We believe the best should be paid for their work and treated like the game developers they are. But again, we don’t think it’s right for us to decide who those creators are or what they create.
Modders aren't game devs, they literally don't fit the description. This is pandering.
Many have questioned the split of the revenue, and we agree this is where it gets debatable. We’re not suggesting it’s perfect, but we can tell you how it was arrived at.
First Valve gets 30%. This is standard across all digital distributions services and we think Valve deserves this. No debate for us there.
The remaining is split 25% to the modder and 45% to us. We ultimately decide this percentage, not Valve.
Is this the right split? There are valid arguments for it being more, less, or the same. It is the current industry standard, having been successful in both paid and free games. After much consultation and research with Valve, we decided it’s the best place to start.
Hahahahahaha, oh lord what is this even. According to Bethesda, modders should be paid like the "developers that they are", but they earn such an insignificant amount of money from the sale it's impossible to live off that. Why do they even think a paywall is going to increase sales is beyond me. They decided on such a percentage, why? The industry standard? If they were actually interested in seeing the community grow they wouldn't charge that much.
Bethesda, I have no respect for you guys. Can't believe how it must feel like for the ones that actually looked up to you.
This changes nothing, Bethesda are still going to pursue this stupid change until our hands are forced. As always. Bethesda were praised by many for their extensive support and, well, "sacrifice" was one word that people could actually use, for modding. We can't say that any more now that money is in the picture and they have a clear financial investment in the matter, taking damn near half of the profits the modders earn. Utterly ridiculous. Their games were plucked at, being unfinished and broken in many ways but it was forgiven because it could be fixed with mods, and they went out of their way so that modding was easy to do. Apparently they had an agenda behind this too.
Just, this fucking industry. Jesus."

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Eine gute Sichtweise hat auch der 8chan user:
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Zuletzt ein Qualitätscheck der aktuell verkauften Mods. Spoiler: Es ist dampfende Scheiße
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Zoidy
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Re: Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

Beitrag von Zoidy » April 28, 2015, 1:35 am

Es ist vorbei!
Valve hat eingelenkt, bezahlte Mods sind wieder verschwunden.
Die Idee ist nicht verworfen, aber Valve hat eingesehen, dass die Umsetzung nicht die Richtige war.

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Tobi
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Re: Wir haben gewonnen! - Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

Beitrag von Tobi » April 28, 2015, 6:06 am

Zoidy geht ab. :D
Schiffe: RSI Orion, AEGIS Vulcan, Banu Merchantman, DRAKE Dragonfly und TUMBRIL Cyclone :]
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lemar
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Re: Wir haben gewonnen! - Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

Beitrag von lemar » April 28, 2015, 7:30 am

Bravo.
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Kurze Frage: Wie oft darf ich bei Notwehr nachladen?

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mieperDE
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Re: Bezahlte Mods bei Steam/Skyrim

Beitrag von mieperDE » April 28, 2015, 10:18 am

Zoidy hat geschrieben:Es ist vorbei!
Valve hat eingelenkt, bezahlte Mods sind wieder verschwunden.
Die Idee ist nicht verworfen, aber Valve hat eingesehen, dass die Umsetzung nicht die Richtige war.

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SUCCES!

:)
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